How PHCC of PA Uses Impactful & Unique Marketing, Communication and Hiring Campaigns
Watch Episode 10 of PHCC Rocks Podcast
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Speaker 0
00:00:04 - 00:00:50
Hello ph C C. Welcome to season one, Episode 10 of PHC See rocks a podcast highlighting some of the great things happening all over America related to the national plumbing heating cooling contractors association. I'm your host, Joel long and we're coming to you from gastonia north Carolina, which as always is today's World wide headquarters of PH C C. We're really excited today to have some wonderful men with us from the state of pennsylvania. The great state of pennsylvania. Right, mike baby. Uh, so we're, we're fortunate today and blessed to have Mike McGraw and larry shoemaker with us uh, from pennsylvania and Mike's the executive director of PHC. See pennsylvania and Larry is serving as the president of the P H C. C. Of pennsylvania, is that correct? Larry?
Speaker 1
00:00:51 - 00:00:52
They got
Speaker 0
00:00:52 - 00:00:54
you on for like a six year term and they're not,
Speaker 1
00:00:56 - 00:00:56
don't do
Speaker 0
00:00:56 - 00:01:28
too good a job Larry. Okay. Don't, don't make sure you don't do too good a job, but hey guys, listen, it's, it's really a treat to have you with us today and looking forward to it. Uh, Mike and I go back a long time and uh, we were both better looking and younger when we met and uh, which is not saying a lot, but you know, one of the things I've loved about doing this podcast is uh, the first thing off the bat every time is learning how guys like y'all, how you got involved with the HCC and just give us some of your background and how you know how you ended up there who want, who wants to go first,
Speaker 2
00:01:30 - 00:01:31
Nobody might
Speaker 0
00:01:31 - 00:01:32
go first.
Speaker 2
00:01:32 - 00:01:39
All right, well first off I didn't wear my jacket because I knew you weren't gonna wear a jacket today. I knew I Told,
Speaker 0
00:01:39 - 00:01:50
I told somebody today that I wonder how long before the the over under was 30 seconds before you would bring up the jacket. So go ahead and tell them to go ahead and tell them go ahead and tell them now you gotta tell them.
Speaker 2
00:01:50 - 00:02:26
Yeah. So we were, I don't remember which one it was but it was 89 years ago when I met joe had a connect and we were just getting introduced for the board and stuff like that. And we were like, should we wear a jacket or tie? We're like, I don't know. I don't think I was gonna wear one joe was like, yeah, I'm not and I show up, I don't have my jacket on, joe comes in. He's got a jacket and tie on and everything. I'm like that. Thanks a lot buddy. Thanks a lot. That's been a joke. Every time we see each other at connect. I
Speaker 0
00:02:26 - 00:02:38
felt so bad. Larry. I felt so bad. Any that light later that I don't remember who Hunter or somebody says Hunter buddy says, but you got to wear a jacket you gotta wear And then I am sorry. I was so I didn't even think about it man. And as soon as soon as mike walked in, he goes,
Speaker 2
00:02:39 - 00:02:39
what are you
Speaker 0
00:02:39 - 00:02:52
doing to me man? But anyway, terrible. Alright so this podcast has gone in the tank immediately. But anyway. Perfect. Alright. Larry now that mike just go ahead. And
Speaker 2
00:02:53 - 00:03:57
so uh my first choice when I was in high school was to go to auto mechanics and um I started my first year of Vo tech was what it was called back then and I started doing work with my cousin on the weekends, he was working for a master plumber and he was doing some side work and needed a hand. So I started helping him and I started liking really liking what I was doing there. So I switched my uh major biotech from auto mechanics to cloning. We went through the technical schooling and then through the apprenticeship program and really really was liking doing plumbing. So graduated worked for several different companies. So I started actually working in the trade when I was 16, so 45 years ago when I started into the trade. Yes I am old. So so but I loved it.
Speaker 2
00:03:58 - 00:04:25
I went into my own business for a period of time with my brother in law. He was on the HD a seaside. I I didn't do much h ier ci did combing and hydroponic keep and that was really good for a while. But um we decided it was better that we were gonna um part ways from the business and at that point I went uh started a plumbing division in the general contracting company.
Speaker 0
00:04:26 - 00:04:26
Yeah and
Speaker 2
00:04:26 - 00:05:31
I did that for probably well I don't know probably eight years. And the general contractor was moving to florida. So I think that was in 2009 he was going to move to Florida. So I spoke to my wife we were deciding whether I was gonna go back out solely on my own and yeah uh still running another business at that time pennsylvania. So I served on every board for my local association and my state association as a contract. I was president of my local philadelphia, Suburban president of the pennsylvania ph C. C. And dealing with an administrator and executive director through that whole time. From 19 I got on the state board as a director in 1993. So from 93 to 2009 I was on that board in some sort of capacity and executive.
Speaker 2
00:05:32 - 00:06:18
And so as an executive committee um we were in search of a new director. Um We were going to start that search and whatnot. So that was the same time that um the guy that owned the contracting company was moving to florida. I spent a lot of time doing P. H. C. C. Stuff throughout my career. Probably more than I should have when I was in business. Okay. But I love the ph C. C. And I put a lot of time into it. So I came up with a proposal to our executive committee And in 2010, they made the decision to bring me on as executive director. So I started uh January of 2011, Believable. So
Speaker 0
00:06:18 - 00:06:20
12, 11 years now.
Speaker 2
00:06:20 - 00:07:02
Yeah. 11 years. And it's funny because the executive director before me, he was telling us that a c you know, was just a good club and people didn't do anything and whatnot. We paid for him to be a member, but he never participated. And I said that to my board, I'd like to go. And the first one I missed the very first year forward, I think it was in new york with Dorothy ready at that time, I missed that one. Mhm. And I think my first one was in Chicago and I came back and I said this, you know, this thing is great. And then I could tell it was a networking group just as ph C c is for contract,
Speaker 0
00:07:02 - 00:07:05
it's a path to the promised land for for Exactly,
Speaker 2
00:07:05 - 00:07:18
yeah. So um still in the industry, still in the trade. I love it. Mhm. And I'll tell you, there's never a day that I wake up and get out of bed and say, oh man, I gotta go to work today, because I just love what I do. Yeah, there's
Speaker 0
00:07:18 - 00:07:54
something new every day, that's for sure, something, you know, and before larry, you know, mike, as long as I can remember, you know, there's probably six or seven just top execs that, you know, when you're in some kind of meeting and getting started and your name always comes up when, and I hope Larry, I hope you guys in pennsylvania understand that. And I'm sure you do that, that if something is needed or there's a question or how something is supposed to be done in a great way. Your name is always one that comes up and uh, and then I tried talking to somebody else, but still, you know, your name comes up. But uh, you know, and I hope you all realize that I mean in pennsylvania, no, in north Carolina. Um,
Speaker 0
00:07:54 - 00:08:00
the executive directors we have has just made all the difference. And so it's amazing innit? Larry? It is.
Speaker 1
00:08:00 - 00:08:25
I mean mike, mike takes this, it's not a job to him. It's, he runs it like it's his own business. You know, he takes it to heart. He shows up the hours he puts in is incredible. I can't tell you how many meetings he goes to at night works all day. He's down at the school, he's out at the state at, in Harrisonburg. He sits on, I don't know how many boards. I mean he's, it's obvious
Speaker 0
00:08:25 - 00:08:39
okay. We're not saying anything else good about him. Larry, come on. His head won't fit on the screen talking. Okay Larry, but this man, it is all true. Mike, I hope and people all over the country know that mike and I appreciate it man. So what you got larry?
Speaker 1
00:08:40 - 00:09:03
Um, I want to go tech. My father was a plumber. I graduated out of school. I didn't want to be a plumber. So I want to go to be a forester. You know, I went to forestry school for a year, found out it was super expensive. Came back for a year. I was gonna earn some money and then I never went back. I put myself through the apprenticeship school.
Speaker 0
00:09:03 - 00:09:04
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1
00:09:04 - 00:09:42
And from there I got asked to teach, I bought the business in 2003 and that's when I joined the p. The local p. h. d. c. Tight. Um, served on a couple of places on, on that board did vice president president and then I got asked to sit and do the secretary secretary position for the state. And from there I got asked to run for vice president and that that takes you right to the president spot. Right? So right. And once you get
Speaker 0
00:09:42 - 00:09:43
started, you can't get out of it.
Speaker 1
00:09:43 - 00:09:45
I
Speaker 0
00:09:45 - 00:10:12
know all about it. It's just, it's just, it's just a temporary thing. It's no big deal Larry. That's great. You know, how many a ton of people that we talked to as we've done these across the country with the business guys started, it's interesting how many of them started in one place, but ended up in the apprenticeship program and ended up in plumbing. You know, they didn't almost nobody starts off you know that they're going to do this and then they end up just loving it And so that's that's a really good piece to hear. Uh
Speaker 2
00:10:12 - 00:10:13
So
Speaker 0
00:10:13 - 00:10:40
one of the things too I like to touch on is you know with being a part of the oldest trade association in the country is really uh I think a powerful statement for our success with that. We have to change all the time and we have to adapt all the time. The association is old but that only means that we keep changing. Think about how much has changed since we got started and then yeah I'd like to hear from you know mike you guys give us a snapshot of pennsylvania ph C c and you know kind of where you stand today picking up members all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2
00:10:41 - 00:11:08
Yeah so um Pennsylvania P. H. C. C. Well it started out in 1894 it was known as pennsylvania Association of Master plumbers And I think it was 1953 they changed to the Pennsylvania Association of Plumbing contractors. Yeah don't mind that. The president does that all the time.
Speaker 2
00:11:10 - 00:12:21
Yes he is a busy man. So yeah in 1953 they amended their corporation to be the Pennsylvania Association of Plumbing contractors. And in 1976 they amended it began to become the Pennsylvania Association plumbing heating cooling contractors and Yep not sure so that's that's where it is now. Um, so yeah, 1894, um, they used to have a building in Harrisburg's pennsylvania, that was their home office, but with the way technology is today and everything now it is worked out of an office um, out of Harrisburg's cause we don't go up there too much except unless when we're doing legislative stuff. So, uh, currently today, when in 2011, when I became executive director, We read 149 members And I remember when we were probably at 300 over 300 when I was on the board today, we're at 205 right now.
Speaker 2
00:12:21 - 00:12:27
So yeah, we're doing, we're doing good on getting some new members and younger guys and right now, so,
Speaker 0
00:12:27 - 00:12:30
so some stability has helped a little bit with the Exactly,
Speaker 2
00:12:30 - 00:12:34
yep. Exactly, Yes, sir. Alright.
Speaker 0
00:12:34 - 00:13:05
Uh, one of the other things that I've really enjoyed is, you know, every state um, has has best practices, you know, you can, it's interesting as you talk state by state, every state's different association and their focus is a little bit different. And one of your main, it's got to be that I've heard for years and years and years. You talked about it and when you and I talked about the other day a little bit more. Is that how you approach legislative affairs and how you focused on it for so long and so direct, So talk talk, both of you talk about that a little bit if you can about why that has become so important
Speaker 2
00:13:09 - 00:13:11
your music, you're muted
Speaker 0
00:13:11 - 00:13:12
larry.
Speaker 2
00:13:13 - 00:13:13
Mm hmm
Speaker 0
00:13:15 - 00:13:17
man this is gonna be the best
Speaker 2
00:13:18 - 00:13:19
the
Speaker 0
00:13:19 - 00:13:19
best
Speaker 2
00:13:23 - 00:13:24
in the association.
Speaker 0
00:13:27 - 00:13:45
Listen Rocco Rocco fan out of Ohio and I love Rocco but when we were doing his like three times and he slammed his fist like you know like his feet and he and he muted himself every time And he would be right in the middle when he was really excited and he would go, I mean you know this is high
Speaker 2
00:13:45 - 00:13:46
and we
Speaker 0
00:13:46 - 00:13:50
had the best time anyway so tell us about you know this legislative focus man.
Speaker 1
00:13:51 - 00:14:44
So mike mike's has a big lead in uh mike and walt have a big lead in trying to get that license pushed through. Mike sits on the P. A. One call um board for the state. We also do the with the big push is that is that public sewer lateral inspections. And we're finding a lot of the townships and municipalities are going after that. So there's a big push in a drive where the state has put together this program that a township or municipality can adopt this program to to inspect these lines without making up all these crazy rules because we don't have a state license which really every township, every municipality, You know at the end of the year we have 4050 licenses sitting on our desk that we're paying for
Speaker 1
00:14:45 - 00:14:56
and everybody wants these different rules, especially for this public sewer lateral thing that the E. P. A. Is just saying you have to have but they give no guidelines to, right. So
Speaker 0
00:14:56 - 00:15:10
That's one state state association that standardizing the licensing requirements, you'll have 40 or 50 different townships and they all have tweaks. Is that one of them? They have little little discrepancies or differences or whatever.
Speaker 1
00:15:10 - 00:15:11
They do
Speaker 2
00:15:11 - 00:15:21
different costs. There's 2600 municipalities in Pennsylvania different counties.
Speaker 0
00:15:22 - 00:15:29
So your real major than legislative focus consistently and for years. Right mike.
Speaker 2
00:15:30 - 00:15:34
Yeah. So um when I when I became executive director,
Speaker 0
00:15:35 - 00:15:35
I also
Speaker 2
00:15:35 - 00:16:39
then became a lobbyist for ph C. C. Um um the lobby for a statewide license and we've been so close so many times walt present asking who's our treasurer and he's a U. A. C. Guy, he's a lobbyist for them as well. He and I would go and lobby together for the statewide licensure bill. And that was shocking enough to the legislators who went to their office and sat down in front of me represent open shop and won't represent the union, lobbying for the same thing. And you know what pennsylvania is exactly like Washington right now, it's basically put on party lines regardless of whether they think something is right or wrong. I mean I hate to say it but that's that's just the way it is right now every time the last session, pennsylvania runs two year sessions through legislative sessions,
Speaker 2
00:16:39 - 00:17:35
but they have a lot of breaks in between, so they're not on all the time, but they have a lot of breaks in those two years. So last year we didn't bring it in the last session because of Covid and all that. It's very hard to lobby, you know, without being in face to face whether you're in the local office or in capital Harrisburg's. So um, the year before that session before that, we were very close, we had to fight a real fight in the House and it was the first time we ever got a pass in the house and then the Senate, he got shot down in the Senate. So um, this year we have a freshman senator who's a master plumber who used to be the business manager for the philadelphia plumbers local 69 he introduced the legislation for us. Um, Yeah,
Speaker 2
00:17:36 - 00:18:10
back in july got introduced, but we're nearing the end now on election year, it's in the Senate were trying to get it out of committee. We probably will get it out of committee, but by the time the end of the year comes, you know, staff, we're gonna have to reintroduce it. But you know, the one thing about us and people will say, oh, you know, my dad told me years ago and you know, we were going to get a license, you're not gonna get it. And I said, well we may or we may not get it. But if we don't do anything, you're never gonna get opportunity at
Speaker 0
00:18:10 - 00:18:18
the failure is not trying. And the failure. Exactly. Some things when, you know something is the right thing to do that, you just quit. And so yeah, that's, that's,
Speaker 2
00:18:18 - 00:18:33
you know, and the relationships that we've created just by Lobling for one bill, we have legislators now that call us and ask us opinions on things that are coming through. Uh, the Harrisburg's,
Speaker 0
00:18:34 - 00:19:13
so that, that long term issues just helped you build relationships and we'll talk about that all the time at the national level to make sure that at home you're building relationships with the Washington contingent. So when you go to Washington, it's personal. Instead of just some guy showing up. Okay. Well, I guess you have to be, if, if you're spending all this time trying to actually, I mean licensing is a huge deal for your success of your business is, I mean, if we, I can't imagine in north Carolina if we had different bodies in every city, it would, it would be complete chaos. And so yeah, I guess you've gotten used to it in some ways.
Speaker 1
00:19:13 - 00:19:15
Yeah.
Speaker 0
00:19:16 - 00:19:20
But you know that, that, you know that the state license would fix a lot of that for customers to.
Speaker 2
00:19:21 - 00:19:22
Oh, absolutely. And
Speaker 0
00:19:22 - 00:19:29
it's most of it's about customers because at the end of the day, it'll make it easier for customers to get, get consistency right?
Speaker 1
00:19:30 - 00:19:30
Yeah.
Speaker 2
00:19:30 - 00:19:50
And the other big issue within his reciprocity. So, um, contractors coming into pennsylvania out of state contractors that are more or borders and come in, every municipality will accept their license because it's a state license. Oh yeah, no, they come in and
Speaker 0
00:19:52 - 00:19:54
advantage because you're inside pennsylvania.
Speaker 2
00:19:54 - 00:20:13
Yeah. And it's, it's even if you have a license in the municipality, even if it's in the city of philadelphia or the city of Pittsburgh, which are the two largest cities you cross into Ohio, you cross into New Jersey. You can't, you can't work, you can't bid on it because they won't accept that license.
Speaker 0
00:20:13 - 00:20:26
So what, what would you do, you know, all across the country, we're seeing things like this, go on. What, what would you recommend as a board and you know, and, and an exact to help with that focus on legislative.
Speaker 2
00:20:27 - 00:20:51
So we, we've done days at the hill and we've had representatives from national come up. Um, this is really, it's not too far from, from, you know, Falls Church to Harrisburg's and then we've had letters and the Grassroot letter writing campaigns is a big, big help because all we gotta do is call up, we'll get the wink and send it out, it's done
Speaker 0
00:20:51 - 00:20:54
Valentini is a rock star in pennsylvania.
Speaker 2
00:20:55 - 00:21:05
Yeah. So, um, well, we haven't had in too much of his last session last two years, you know, which was two years, we didn't really do any campaigning for it, but it's coming.
Speaker 0
00:21:05 - 00:21:08
Okay, well, we'll make sure he's on board. So listen, let's,
Speaker 2
00:21:08 - 00:21:12
he's always asking me about very, very into So nationals
Speaker 0
00:21:12 - 00:21:25
helped you tremendously over the years with fighting that battle that I like. The letter writing is a massive thing and it's helped us in north Carolina a lot and all across the country. Okay. You got anything to add to that larry or
Speaker 1
00:21:25 - 00:21:40
it's that and money. It's trying to get that pac fund built up. That's gonna be our next thing that we're really working on because everybody else that we're fighting against and that's a
Speaker 0
00:21:40 - 00:22:00
really good point to not wait till the last minute to try to raise that money either be consistent in that I see that, you know, we'll have what we think something's coming all of a sudden and we're going to raise a bunch of money instead of being consistent on that across the board. Yeah. Okay. So I want to switch gears. Give us uh, give us something that nobody knows about you guys that they would want to know.
Speaker 2
00:22:01 - 00:22:02
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2
00:22:04 - 00:22:07
You really want. Want us to say something like God on this thing.
Speaker 0
00:22:07 - 00:22:11
All right, help me out amy, I'm gonna get I need to get my picture up here. Go ahead. What?
Speaker 2
00:22:12 - 00:22:22
So a lot of my, my friends know me, but I don't know about my PhD see friends, but I am a lifetime and Hallmark channel junky
Speaker 0
00:22:22 - 00:22:24
Hallmark channel junkie.
Speaker 2
00:22:24 - 00:22:29
Oh yeah, the movies, especially christmas time I watched him over and over
Speaker 1
00:22:29 - 00:22:30